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Episode Description
This episode was created and recorded by Dean Stockdale in ᐊᒥᐢᑲᐧᒋᐋᐧᐢᑲᐦᐃᑲᐣ amiskwaciwâskahikan (Edmonton) on Treaty 6 territory.
So you think you’re smarter than a mushroom? Dean takes on capitalism, sustainability, belief, and zombie ants in a rumination that will satisfy the mycologist in all of us.
[0:29] Ruminations on intelligence, capitalism, and humanity
[5:20] Dive into fungi
[6:06] Zombie ants and Ophiocordyceps unilateralis
[8:14] Sustainability and the future: what can we learn from thinking like mushrooms?
Continue the mushroom deep-dive after the wander with Dean’s curated mushroom playlist.
Want the transcript, more info about what you heard, or a way to connect with other wanderers? Check out our website or connect with us on Instagram. If you have an idea, feedback, or story you’d like to share, give us a shout at wouldyouwander@gmail.com.
Edited by Sam Jeffery in amiskwaciwâskahikan (Edmonton) on Treaty 6 territory.
Meet the Storyteller: Dean Stockdale (they/them)
Where did I grow up:
I grew up in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan which was and is lovely because it has a river running through it. It's not so big that it takes an hour to get across town nor is it so small you run into someone you know every time you leave the house, which for an introvert is nice.
Favourite plant:
I've always loved snapping dragons cause they're the closest thing nature has to a puppet.
Favourite random nature fact:
(This is actually great because I wanted to fit this in the pod but it didn't make the cut.) Trees make you better at test taking! They've found that spending ten+ mins in nature before taking a test can increase your creativity and critical thinking.
Something nature has taught me:
Nothing is guaranteed and sometimes being miserable is necessary to appreciate when you're not miserable.
Further Readings
Author Merlin Sheldrake shows how this neglected kingdom is essential for life on earth
The deadly parasite’s grand finale involves sending toxic spores blooming from the dead ant’s head.
The astonishing secrets of fungal life raise profound questions
TRANSCRIPT - Wander 3: So you think you're Smarter than a Mushroom?
Note: Transcripts may contain errors. If you wish to re-use all, or part of, a transcript, please contact Would You Wander for permission.
Sam: Welcome to Would You Wander, the storytelling nature podcast. Whether you're in a city, the wilds, or anywhere in between, nature is always beside you. You've come to the right place - exactly where you are. So come on - would you wander with us? This wander is by Dean Stockdale. It's called "So you think you're Smarter than a Mushroom?".
Dean: I’d like to begin by asking you to take a moment and think about what makes people different from other animals, and other life. You might think about how we tell stories. We make music. We can speak to each other with an unparalleled specificity. Maybe you think about our so-called “superior” intelligence, but let’s put a pin in that.
First I’d like to mention humanity’s incredible ability to believe in things unseen. We can imagine stuff that doesn’t exist and make it a reality. We can develop shared faiths that are deeply meaningful and very real to us even though the physical evidence may be lacking. This imaginative quality is what has made us who we are and gotten us where we are, and it’s pretty much unique. Other animals, and other forms of life don’t really communicate in the abstract way that we do because it’s essentially pointless for them. Meanwhile it gives us an advantage unlike any other.
But I am not here to argue for humanity’s domination of planet earth because we have some magic ability that makes us better than all other life on it, in fact I think we’ve begun to separate ourselves from nature in a way that’s unhealthy for both the planet and for us.
Do you ever wonder why religion seems to be less and less popular as time goes on? There are theorists who blame it on science, because religion has been used as a way to explain what couldn’t be explained before science could. Others will say that religion was a way to keep people in line and therefore safe, and that now we don’t need religion mostly because gender and sexual norms aren’t a social need. I really couldn’t say. I’m just a curious enby with a passion for the unknown, but I do have an idea.
There are a lot of us. Humans, that is. So many I’m fearful that we’ve begun to collapse in on ourselves. It seems as though we prioritize only our needs and often forget to take into account the needs of the other creatures that inhabit earth. Which, when you think about it, makes sense. What does nature really provide us on a day-to-day scale? We spend time walking or driving on pavement made by and for ourselves, our buildings are made by people, our homes. Our pets were bred specifically to be our companions, even our food is grown by us. We are so constantly surrounded by things made by and for people that we forget anything else exists. If we never see God’s creation, what’s to remind us they’re out there?
Listen, I’m really not trying to convert you, it’s an idea. A hypothesis. Pure speculation. What I’m really trying to do is be an advocate for nature. Whether God exists or not, we need nature. We didn’t make everything. We had a lot of help. From ancestors, animals, evolution, the earth, but the rarity of our experience outside of human creation makes it very difficult to remember this. In western society as it is now, to find yourself in an environment secluded from anything human-made is challenging, and because of this, we forget to think about what’s beyond ourselves.
As we know, matter cannot be created nor destroyed, so everything must come from something else. Consequently, everything we make will eventually become something else. But in a capitalist society we really don’t want to think about that, do we? We just want what we want and we want it now.
When I sat down to write this podcast I realized I would need to do a lot of thinking about humanity’s arrogance, in particular the arrogance of my people. As a white, modern colonizer, it is scary peering into the deep well of damage that’s been done, but I have faith in humanity. I have faith in our ability to believe in things unseen, and I have faith that we still have the chance to create a world that benefits both ourselves and nature. To do this, however, a lot needs to change. We have a good bit of learning, un-learning, re-learning, and work to do. And I believe a good place to start is in conversation with nature.
So let’s circle back to intelligence and humanity’s relationship with nature. Are we really smarter than everything else? Is that why we’re at this point? Well it depends on your definition of “smart”. The problem is that we in modern colonial society equate intelligence with things man-made (and I do mean man) when in reality consciousness and intelligence exist in many forms and in ways that are much more vast (and much more sustainable) than we. The type of intelligence it takes to do math is very different from musical intelligence, is very different from kinesthetic intelligence, is very different from empathetic intelligence, and so on. Why, if we can honour all kinds of different ways of human-thinking can’t we appreciate the way that other life \thinks too? It is difficult, yes, to value something you don’t understand, but there is so much to learn from delving into that which has not yet been explained.
Let’s take a look at fungi, for example. Fungi think in a way that’s essentially the opposite of how we do. Where we think with our brains which tell our bodies what to do, fungi think with their entire system and tell the little ones who sprout out of the ground what to do. In other words, humans have a top-down intelligence system while fungi’s is bottom-up.
Imagine. You’re a mushroom. Every thought comes to you because of something your feet told you to do. Only your feet are also your brain, and your brain is connected to a bunch of other brains. That is how mushrooms think.
You are a human. Most of what you think about comes from something you have told yourself to think. Or someone else had told you. Or something else. That is how you think.
There is a type of mushroom: the Ophiocordyceps unilateralis, which creates what have been nicknamed “zombie ants”. Maybe you’ve heard of them. When these mushrooms need to release spores, they essentially mind control ants and other kinds of insects to do so. Let me walk you through it. First, the ant eats some Unilateralis spores, and then over the course of 4-7 days, the fungal cell population begins to grow in its brain and body until it has completely taken over the insect’s central nervous system. The fungus then tells the ant or whatever to climb to a very high point, and grip as hard as it possibly can to the branch it’s on (usually with its mouth as well as its appendages). Once the ant is secure, the fungus kills it and bursts through its exoskeleton with more spores, which get swept up by the wind and dispersed.
It sounds brutal, I know. And it is, of course. But it is also absolutely incredible. Remember that fungus belong to a whole other kingdom of life than ants. Ants belong to the family “animateralis”, which is the same one we do. Remember how hard it was to try to think like a mushroom? Well, mushrooms are so good at thinking like something with a top-down intelligence that they can manipulate their nervous systems. And that’s not the only thing that makes them smart.
Mushrooms know how to think so well that they can take care of entire ecosystems. If they sense a tree or a certain part of a forest is diseased or isn’t doing too well, they either cut off its access to nutrients or send more their way. Even Ophiocordyceps Unilateralis, which is arguably the most violent mushroom, only kills off bugs that they feel could disrupt the ecosystem if their population gets to be too high. Mushrooms understand that the best way for them to do better is for everything around them to do better. They are incredible communicators and wonderful collaborators. And since you can find them all over the world, they’ve kinda been taking care of the ecosystem of the earth as we know it to be and have been for the past 715 million years. They go way back. And since they consider the consequences of their actions, they’re not going anywhere for a long time.
So why did I take you down this strange mushroom rabbit-hole? Mostly it’s because of how much I think we can learn from thinking like mushrooms. Mushrooms have no desire to completely destroy other species, all they want is to ensure there is balance. They think in such a broad sense that it is inherently sustainable, and I think that’s where some humans are lacking. Despite our beautiful capacity to see things unseen and share thoughts about potentiality, a lot of us who live in a capitalist western society don’t think about the consequences of our actions nearly enough to create a sustainable future for ourselves. If we are to build a future wherein people thrive, nature needs to thrive as well. There are cultures, particularly Indigenous peoples in Canada and all over the world who have understood this since the beginning, so we have a lot of catching up to do. We need to start connecting with other brains in a way that cares for ourselves and the environment around us, just like mushrooms. And the best way to do that is by communicating and collaborating with nature through listening to, seeing, and experiencing it. And of course taking better care of it.
Thank you for joining me, wherever you are. I hope my words and the either real or imagined trees, mushrooms, and other life you may have seen have given you some new things to think on. Have a wonderful day, and I wish you the best on the rest of your journey.
Sam: If you'd like to keep wandering, head to another episode now. If not, thanks so much for coming with us. Check out our website for transcripts, resources, and connection with fellow wanderers. Are you a storyteller yourself? I would love to hear from you. The website, email, and more are all in the episode description. We can't wait to wander with you again soon.
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